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My mother is trying to get my downs brother to impregnate his downs girlfriend so she can take the baby


Posted byu/Laukadvice
23 hours ago
My mother is trying to get my downs brother to impregnate his downs girlfriend so she can take the baby
My brother is 22 and has down syndrome with my mother being his sole carer (our father did a runner soon after he was born).

I'm 26, female and was told I would never have kids due to my tubes closing up which meant my mother would never have a grandchild from either of her own children.

Soon after I got my news my mother took an extreme interest in my brothers sex life. She signed him up to various dating agencies for people with downs even though all my brother wants to do is play Minecraft. He has no genuine interest in girls or sex.

Around 3 months ago I'd say a dating website specialising in relationships for people witb disabilities in Durham found my brother a match. A 19 year old also with a milder form of downs who is absolutely sex mad but like most young downs nowadays they share an interest in Minecraft but my brother still had no interest in sex.

As the weeks went by my mother began to encourage my brother to have sexual relations with the girl, asking him to kiss each other and lick eachothers tongue. This all came to a head when my mother bought testosterone gel online in hope it would make my brother more stimulated but after a month of that not working she decided to give him viagra during a play date, the dose was that strong he began crying because after 4 hours his erection wouldn't go away and she had to take him to hospital where she told the doctor he had found her boyfriends viagra pills in her bedroom. She doesn't even have a boyfriend.

When she fixed the dose of viagra she would tell my brother to go to bed with this girl where my mum would help them have sex. Again my brother had no interest in sex but was bribed with his favourite treat jammy dodgers (They were also the method my mum used to spike him by putting chopped up viagra pills in them).

By the way... throughout all this I'm telling my mother that YOU'RE F.CKING CRAZY! I've argued with her multiple times and I'm currently in the process of moving out because of this. Even though they're not using condoms my mother insists she's not trying to get this girl pregnant and says she's only helping because it was recommended by another mum with a son with downs. She says boys build up a lot of frustration if they don't have a sexual release and she's trying to look out for her son.

Anything my mother says doesn't add up, I've seen her history on her iPad. She searched for the best positions to conceive a child, how to make sperm stronger, ivf prices in India, sperm extraction techniques. It's so obvious she wants this girl to get pregnant.

My mother genuinely loves her son but I think this has just gone too far now. I don't know if what she's doing is criminal and I don't know if my brother will be taken away from her. I feel like if he was to get taken away she would lose him and me because I caused her and even though what she's doing is messed up she's still my mum and we are all she has.

So what I want to know, is there a way I can take full responsibility for my brother and move him out to live with me?

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level 1
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23 hours ago
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level 1
OfficePlum
1.6k points
·
23 hours ago
Correct me if I'm wrong but your mother is essentially bribing your brother with Jammy Dodgers to have sexual relations? I'm lost for words. Your brother is in immediate danger and should be removed from the care of his mother. Go to the social services or police and report this for his sake.

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level 2
Caramac44
412 points
·
10 hours ago
Police, social services, in that order and straight away. Social services can arrange somewhere safe for your brother to stay while the police investigate, and in the long term they may well decide that it’s best for him to stay with you, or a Shared Lives placement, or in a group home. They will assess your brother’s capacity to consent to sex, but at the very least, your mum is abusing him by hiding viagra in his biscuits. As another poster said, viagra is not safe for a person with Downs.

Also, if you need support, try your local carers’ advocacy group.

All the best to you and your brother.

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level 2
BaconPancakes1
211 points
·
9 hours ago
·
edited 9 hours ago
'bribing' is an extremely generous word. She's drugging him without his consent, likely misleading him and/or not allowing him to make an educated decision about what he's doing, she's sexually abusing her son - 'helping him to have sex'?! She's forcing him to do something he doesn't want to do and doesn't have the ability or power to enforce his will over, she's present in the room engaging with the sexual contact she's manipulating into occurrence. And the girl as well.. She's 19 and likes sex, but does she want to give birth? She's less affected by DS than he is, but is she able to make that decision for herself or knowledgeable about the repurcussions of unprotected sex? Can she stand up to the mother if she's uncomfortable and wants to stop or use protection? Do we think that if she got pregnant and wanted to terminate it, that OP's mother would stand by and let that happen, or let her keep her child if it were to be born?

This is sickening and has to be stopped. OP you should report this immediately and figure out a different living/care situation for your brother.

(IANAL) If you are a self-sufficient adult who can provably support both you and your brother on your salary and live a stable, safe existence in a house which would accommodate his needs, I'm sure you could successfully get custody of care over your brother, but it may be difficult. You would need to both get the guardianship of your mother revoked and apply for a court of guardianship yourself (read more here https://www.caritaslegal.co.uk/services/guardianship/) as well as possibly power of attorney so you can control his finances and healthcare decisions. For this you will need the advice and support of a lawyer who knows family law. I believe that if you already have power of attorney over him alongside your mum it will be simpler as otherwise you will need permission from the court to apply for guardianship.

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level 2
LordCrumpets
142 points
·
14 hours ago
I feel so bad for laughing because the situation is not funny at all but it’s just so bizarre. This kid needs help and the mother needs to be removed as his carer.

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level 2
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6 hours ago


level 3
slippyg
55 points
·
6 hours ago
Found the guy coming here from /r/bestoflegaladvice!

Please avoid participating in linked threads :)

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level 3
deadline_wooshing_by
12 points
·
6 hours ago
http://www.burtonsbiscuits.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/JammieDodgers_Raspberry_140g_Visual-1-1.png

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level 4
Comment deleted
6 hours ago
(0 children)


level 1
marcieabadeeer
262 points
·
19 hours ago
If this is happening, you can make a safeguarding referral online at any time of day and leave your details out (like, now). You could also call the police anonymously.

I say this because whilst everyone else is correct that you need to report this, I think it sounds like you want to preserve your relationship with your mum, so you may want to be aware you can do this anonymously.

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level 2
Subzero919
10 points
·
2 hours ago
Anonymously lol. The mother would figure it out.

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level 1
-zombae-
671 points
·
21 hours ago
if this is real, take all the evidence you have and go to the police as soon as possible, this is coerced sex. i really hope this is a troll.

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level 2
Mock_Womble
184 points
·
18 hours ago
·
edited 11 hours ago
I believe there's also a maximum penalty of 10 years in prison for administering drugs to someone without their knowledge or consent.

I have so many questions, but I'm fairly sure I don't want them to be answered. If this is real - OP, get your brother out of there ASAP. It's better that you take control of the situation than the girl involved in this tells her social worker or carer what's happening.

Edit:. I was trying to convince myself this is a troll post, so I had a look to see if I could find a SEN dating site in Durham. Didn't see one specific to Durham, but there do seem to be quite a few.

I honestly find this quite worrying - who exactly is overseeing/administering these things? I'm sure the folk running them are all very well meaning, but dammed if I'd want to be involved in it. The whole thing has the capacity to go completely sideways.

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level 3
WailordOnSkitty
18 points
·
3 hours ago
One of my friends from highschool (I was so weirded out when he first talked about it but the more I thought about it the more it made some kind of sense) either volunteers or works at a non profit I don’t remember the exact details that helps handicapped people have sex, and hey had sex therapists talk with developementally disabled people so if they were dating or something they could try their best to be normal.

Don’t get me wrong I still thinks it’s a weird job, just like I think being a sex therapist is a “weird” job, but at the end of the day these are people.... as long as they’re aware of what they’re doing and can make their own decisions (NOT WHATS HAPPENING HERE) I don’t see a problem with it. The problem I would have is that the “dating service” didn’t do their due diligence and are clearly not following up.

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level 2
AlphaAlpaca
37 points
·
14 hours ago
it's an incredibly sad thing to happen too, since the mother is the sole carer of OP's brother.

Say the mother is given a custodial sentence (behind bars). Would OP want to take care of her brother? It's a huge burden to be the sole carer of someone with downs.

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level 3
GiveMeABreak25
4 points
·
2 hours ago
She is actually asking if she can take care of him legally. She wants to.

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level 1
Afinkawan
490 points
·
17 hours ago
I don't know if what she's doing is criminal...

Yes, very. Imagine if she was giving the girl rohypnol so she'd have sex even if she didn't want to. This is basically the same thing.

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level 1
Dusty-Pilgrim
116 points
·
16 hours ago
·
edited 6 hours ago
There are potential criminal offences being committed here (causing sexual activity if the person does not consent and administering drugs).

However the OP’s question is can she take responsibility for her brother instead of her mother.

She would have to take proper legal advice on guardianship applications.

An alternative is counselling - the mother sounds like she needs some proper psychological counselling - would she agree to this and might this help to resolve the situation?

Males with Down’s syndrome are almost always infertile so what she is trying to do is also quite futile.

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level 1
thunderpaws90
112 points
·
18 hours ago
You should take a screenshot of the search history on her iPad if you do go on to report this

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level 1
InnocentManWasBenned
85 points
·
16 hours ago
This all came to a head when my mother bought testosterone gel online in hope it would make my brother more stimulated but after a month of that not working she decided to give him viagra during a play date, the dose was that strong he began crying because after 4 hours his erection wouldn't go away and she had to take him to hospital where she told the doctor he had found her boyfriends viagra pills in her bedroom.

If this isn't a troll then you should definitely have reported your mum to the police and local council's department for the protection of vulnerable people at this point, if not when she was merely grooming him.

The hospital visit is strong evidence against your mum.

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level 1
Jenny-Thalia
239 points
·
18 hours ago
If this is real, your mother is sexually abusing and drugging your brother. Call the police immediately.

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level 1
_PestoKing
78 points
·
16 hours ago
I’ve had to rat my parents out to social services in the past OP. They drink A LOT and like to foster children because they get a load of benefit money. Lousy parents. I felt awful, they were angry but it had to be done to save those kids.

Please, do this for your brother if not yourself. Your mother sounds like a terrible person and a complete narcissist.

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level 1
schwarzkobler
143 points
·
17 hours ago
The girl's family should be notified abot this.

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level 2
Me-Here-Now
104 points
·
8 hours ago
I'm not understanding why concern for the girl is not higher on this list.

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level 1
MisunderstoodToast
38 points
·
18 hours ago
I so hope this is NOT real. If it is, report it as a safeguarding incident. If you standby and let this happen without taking it further then this abuse is also down to you.

Your mum might love your brother but this is horrific abuse and he deserves a higher level of care than what he’s currently getting. She is betraying his trust in the worst possible way.

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level 1
kbox
34 points
·
15 hours ago
Your mother is dangerous and psychotic. You need to tell social services immediately. Your brother is essentially being sexually abused by your mother.

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level 1
I-am-sheepdog
78 points
·
11 hours ago
There is just so much wrong here.

Please get in touch with social services and the police.

Your brother is being abused by your mother.

Do you realise that viagra can cause heart attacks in men with heart disease and that people with Down syndrome have a high incidence of congenital heart disease? This is an unprescribed drug which your mother has given in too high a dose. She could kill him. Get him away from her.

I know you love her but you need to step up and protect your brother.

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level 2
londonsocialite
7 points
·
3 hours ago
I don’t know if that’s the case in the US, but in the UK, Viagra has recently been approved as an over the counter medicine, and as such it doesn’t require a prescription. However it’s placed behind the counter and I believe you need to speak with the pharmacist if you intend to purchase it,

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level 3
I-am-sheepdog
2 points
·
3 hours ago
TIL

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level 1
iloverubicon
18 points
·
14 hours ago
There is an offence of causing or inciting a person with a mental disorder, impeding choice, to engage in sexual activity. A key factor however is the mental disorder impeding choice, can your brother understand the choice? He is unable to make the choice because of the mental disorder?

There is also further offences being committed regarding the adminstering of noxious substances which is definitely an offence. It's worth reporting this to the police to prevent a vulnerable person coming to harm and to safeguard him, his girlfriend and also any children this might result in. In terms of taking responsibility of him, that would need to go through social services. There is no way this will go through social services and not end with the police and your brother definitely needs to be safeguarded

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level 1
parabola-of-joy--
15 points
·
21 hours ago
This is just heartbreaking for everyone (except your mother) involved. I’m so sorry you’re having to deal with the awfulness that is a destructive parent.

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level 1
Raichu7
56 points
·
22 hours ago
Yes that’s criminal, that’s pretty much rape. Tell the police and social services now if this is real.

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level 1
curlypies
29 points
·
9 hours ago
·
edited 9 hours ago
It's important to remember that people with Down's syndrome and other forms of intellectual disability can have romantic and sexually intimate relationships. Part of enabling them to live as independently as possible is to make sure that they have appropriate social skills and sexual education. However, they are also very vulnerable to abuse, and certain parts of your story (particularly the medications) are worrying.

If you are based in Durham you can contact Social Care directly on scd@durham.gov.uk, or phone 03000 267 979. If you are out of their area they will be able to direct the case appropriately. If that is not an option, I urge you to report your concerns and speak with Police, your brother's GP, or your brother's case worker/social worker if he has one, as soon as possible.

The question about what happens to your brother (including whether he can live with you) is a decision that will be taken by a social worker, Guardian ad Litum, and/or a court, but they will take into account lots of things including what your brother's best interests are, what types of placements are available in the area, whether he has any special needs that need specific support, your housing and employment situation, et cetera. Child and vulnerable adult protection services can sometimes be slow to act (days/weeks/months, rather than hours), but they tend to have a lot of momentum once they get rolling.

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level 1
deftonechromosome
38 points
·
15 hours ago
I’m finding this hard to believe, but let’s assume this is real.

your brother is being abused

your brother’s girlfriend is being abused

your mother needs psychological help

It’s that simple. Doing something about it is of course more complicated, but I would talk to a doctor regarding your mothers mental health firstly. You will get great advice there and get in the right direction.

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level 1
mechathatcher
13 points
·
12 hours ago
Go to the police with what you've told us. Your mum is drugging your brother, she's already had to take him to hospital once... What if things go really wrong next time. Your brother is in danger.

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level 1
lobsterlibsterlobste
10 points
·
12 hours ago
If this is true, you need to call the police and social services immediately.

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level 1
Flashdash92
9 points
·
6 hours ago
This is sexual abuse. You need to report t to the police on 101, and say those words. The NHS have produced a booklet on safeguarding vulnerable adults and the definition of sexual abuse is on page 3. It is “including rape or sexual acts to which the adult has not consented or was pressured into consenting.”

The booklet is aimed at NHS professionals but still contains useful information. It is here: https://www.england.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/adult-pocket-guide.pdf

Write down everything. What you’ve written here is a very good start. Add in dates and times. Try and take photos as well.

Vulnerable adults (which your brother is classed as) are protected under all the safeguarding laws which also apply to children. Your Mum is breaking the law here.

You should also google “adult safeguarding [your local council]” and get in touch with them. They will be able to guide you through the reporting process. You can say that you want to remain as anonymous as possible for as long as possible. The safeguarding team will have a LADO (Local Authority Designated Officer), who will then be in charge of investigating the case.

OP, you have done nothing wrong, and by reporting it you would be doing absolutely the right thing. Your brother is vulnerable and relies on other people to look out for him. Your Mum is supposed to be one of those people, and in fact she is abusing him. As awful as it is to do so, you need to enable the authorities put a stop to it. You will not be betraying your family - your Mum has betrayed your brother.

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level 2
slippyg
4 points
·
6 hours ago
The role of the LADO team isn't really to investigate situations like this (see chapter 2). The LADO role is to act as a lead person(s) to work with organisations who suspect or have concerns about employees/volunteers in a position of trust, or have employees who/volunteers who are under investigation.

That and OP's brother is 22 and the LADO role is for protecting children. Not that I'm saying this isn't a safeguarding issue because it 100% is. Safeguarding enquiries for the protection of adults fall under section 42 of the Care Act 2014 and the guidance in 'Making Safeguarding Personal'.

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level 3
Flashdash92
3 points
·
6 hours ago
Sorry, I stand corrected. I used to work as Safeguarding Lead for a large children’s organisation (with lots of employees / volunteers in positions of trust) so all my experience came from that - I assumed it was the same for adults. Thanks for the info. I was trying to find that document for OP but couldn’t remember what it was called to google it.

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level 4
slippyg
3 points
·
6 hours ago
I would say you're doing fine, I just like to nitpick to keep my own knowledge up to scratch!

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level 1
RedcurrantJelly
14 points
·
21 hours ago
Is this real

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level 1
randomisedmind
6 points
·
21 hours ago
Is there a social worker involved with your brother. I know he isn't a minor anymore but can't recall who would you speak to first. I would go to social workers for help and I'm sure They can get you down the right path to find someone that deals with adults with disabilities

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level 1
tif2shuz
6 points
·
4 hours ago
This is insane. Your mother is abusing your brother to say the absolute LEAST. Firstly it’s sexual abuse. How dare she force her own son to have UNPROTECTED sex with a stranger to get a baby?? This is delusional. The poor girl that’s supposed to give birth probably has no intention of getting pregnant or giving birth. And how would she know the girl wouldn’t want to keep her own baby?? It’s not right. Your mother is taking advantage of two mentally handicapped people. It’s abuse in every sense!

The second part of this is the drugging. This is illegal and can constitute jail time. Her son is mentally handicapped and she’s slipping him viagra! The poor guy probably has no idea what is happening to him literally.

And what does it mean she’s “assisting them having sex” like she’s in the room? None of this is okay.

This has to be a troll. If not please get custody of your brother. Otherwise if anyone else gets wind of this your brother will be taken and your mother will be put in jail for a number of things, one of them being abusing a disabled person.

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level 1
Microem
10 points
·
11 hours ago
Setting aside the legality of this I just googled it, and it looks like people with downs syndrome have very low fertility as it is.

In an article about a couple with downs who want to have children it says this - "Medical geneticist Michael Gattas from Brisbane Genetics said the chances of a couple with Down syndrome falling pregnant were rare and he had never seen a case at his practice."

Has your mother also considered that chances are that if they do conceive the child is highly likely to also have downs? Who will look after this kid when she's dead?

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level 2
alphahydra
8 points
·
4 hours ago
IIRC there's been something like only two cases in medical history where a male with Down's Syndrome has fathered a child, that's how low their fertility is. That's one thing that makes me think (hope) this might be a troll: anyone who'd done the obsessive googling OP describes would know that, a troll might not.

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level 1
MR777
5 points
·
10 hours ago
> So what I want to know, is there a way I can take full responsibility for my brother and move him out to live with me?



You would have to report this and take things from there. Your mum will obviously be unhappy and will challenge any attempt to take her son away, it may get very messy and ruin your relationship with her forever. Have you ever cared for him before? Do you work? Does he need a full time carer? Do you have a place to live where he could live with you? From your post I see you want to move out and I expect most of the answers to my questions to be negative. Report this to your local authority's safeguarding team and your brother will either be taken away from your mother (and you) or they'll side with her (as you haven't shown them enough evidence). The hospital trip though would be evidence of her inability to care for him. All in all, you need to see a lawyer and carefully consider the ramifications of reporting your mum.

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level 1
askoorb
3 points
·
6 hours ago
As others have said, ring your local social services Adult Safeguarding hotline. There will be a dedicated number. You can call 24 hours for something like this.

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level 1
viscountsj
3 points
·
6 hours ago
Sexually abusing or grooming a vulnerable adult is very similar in law to sexually abusing a child.

If your mother were encouraging your underage brother to have sex with an underage girl, that would be a similar offence, and protection of vulnerable adults is taken as seriously by police and courts as child protection

I'm fortunate enough to have not had to look into law in this area much beyond that, do I don't know exact specifics, but this is very much a matter for police, especially considering the involvement of administering drugs.

Given that in his situation, your mother is also essentially his advocate, this becomes all the more serious.

As with others, I hope it's not true.

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level 1
rokkun87
8 points
·
16 hours ago
I know this doesn’t help but what the fuck is wrong with people?

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level 1
1nfiniterealities
2 points
·
5 hours ago
This is criminal and the adult social services team in your council and the police need to know as soon as possible. Gather as much evidence as you can and report it immediately!! She is drugging a vulnerable person!

Aside from the point, but they wouldn't give the baby to her anyway automatically, it would more likely stay with mum and her family... but you don't get babies taken just because of Down Syndrome :/ This is so wrong.

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level 1
mummifiedllama
2 points
·
3 hours ago
As far as I am aware you require a deprivation of liberty order to administer medication covertly. Your brother is incapable of making an informed decision about taking medication that he is unaware he is taking, therefore this will be treated as abuse. The legality of the sex would depend upon whether or not your brother has the capacity to consent, which would require a capacity assessment, although until proven otherwise an individual is assumed to have capacity. Report your mum, so far she has hospitalised him and is still giving him drugs that he doesn't need, to suit her purposes. I am sure she does love him with all her heart, but she has lost her way badly here

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level 1
LJ160491
2 points
·
2 hours ago
You need to report her to social services and the police. What she did with the viagra and testosterone is illegally Medicate him. The sooner your brother (and his girlfriend) can get away and stop being abused by your mother, the better.

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level 1
Blonde_Calculator
8 points
·
16 hours ago
First off, your mom is not only a disgusting rapist but also an idiot. Most men with Down syndrome cannot have children. It's just science.

Secondly, your mom is a caretaker of a vulnerable adult with limited capacity. She is supposed to do what's best for him. Instead she drugged your brother (criminal) drugged his girlfriend he doesn't even want to have (criminal), forces them to have sex (felony).

Your mother hardly has your brother's best interest at heart. She might have been an amazing parent few years ago but now she is a disgusting (I honestly can't find the right words to describe what she's doing) monster, she forces him to have sex.

It is very similar having a father (reversing all genders) of a 7 y/o girl to drug her and her friend and force them to have a sexual relations. The only difference being that the father would also get charged with child porn. Your brother is unable to consent, there's a reason why your mom is able to.claim social for him. This is because he is not able to make decisions for himself. Just like a 7 y/on child.

Please contact social services and police. Do not let her abuse him and that poor gorl

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level 2
Entity51
16 points
·
12 hours ago
felony

Your on the wrong subreddit.

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level 2
charlytune
6 points
·
16 hours ago
From the post I don't think the mother has drugged the girl, not that that makes this any less vile (if this is a genuine post. PLEASE let this be fake).

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level 2
Thereelgerg
1 point
·
2 hours ago
A rapist? Who did she rape?

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level 1
Better_weird_than_de
1 point
·
7 hours ago
Hi, is there a way we can alert authorities to this post? This can't go on any longer if true.

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level 2
slippyg
4 points
·
7 hours ago
I don't know if you're the person that reported this post asking for us to report this to the police, but no, there isn't anything the mods can do. We don't see anything that you don't see - so all we have to go on is that OP's Mum/brother might be somewhere around Durham.

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level 1
EEJR
1 point
·
3 hours ago
Likewise to the other comments.

But does she realize the child would automatically be in custody of the mother? Whereas the caretakers of her. He would actually need to be put on the birth certificate, that's not saying she has an abortion. However, downs kids do have rights, they are allowed to wed and have children.

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jaaykidd
1 point
·
7 hours ago
Have you called the police yet?

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level 1
GenericScrub24
-4 points
·
6 hours ago
Christ this is horrible. You jeed to get your brother out of there

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neutronstarneko
-20 points
·
15 hours ago
(3 children)

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11 hours ago
(2 children)
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level 2
tomegranate
19 points
·
15 hours ago
Hahaha, someone with a developmental disability is being abused, definitely the right time to make a joke.

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slippyg
6 points
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13 hours ago
Unfortunately, your post has been removed for breaking one of our subreddit rules:

Your comment has not met our community standards on speaking to other posters.

Please familiarise yourself with our subreddit rules

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AxolotlsAreDangerous
-14 points
·
5 hours ago
(0 children)
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(2 comments, ?? new, ?? words in story) Full Story

My mother is trying to get my downs brother to impregnate his downs girlfriend so she can take the baby | 6 comments (0 hidden) | Post A Comment
Kr5ddit you need to only show the first X characters of a story then show the rest when the user clicks on it or the web... (#401)
by Anonymous on Sept. 24, 2018, 2:46 a.m.
robot wants to read it.

This was a test to see how long the buffer was. Too big I think. It scrolls all stories down.

You might want Blastar and company to help fix it.

[ Parent | View Source ]
Yep... (#402)
by freek666 on Oct. 3, 2018, 2:10 p.m.
Actually, the code already supports this, just have to change an "if" statement or something... Will do... sometime.

Thanks for your input and hard work improving this forum.

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